I
have received an email from one of the leader of Infinity Downline. In this
entry, I would like to share my short reply to her email. Even though it is
short and unable to cover lot of issues which need to be clarified i.e Shariah
related issues, I am still hoping that it could give some additional benefit to
the zaharuddin.net's readers.
From:
Celya <
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>
To:
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Sent:
Thu, March 11, 2010 5:01:07 PM
Subject:
Questions on Islamic Perspective
Greetings
Ustaz Zaharuddin,
I
was just reading your article on facebook entitled "Web saya tutup perik
nasi orang". I found it really informative.
I
hope you don't mind, but i sincerely want to understand the Syariah law as i
have Muslim customers and it is important to me that they feel comfortable, and
that i am being fair.
Would
you please consider answering some of my questions? In your article you stated
that you would entertain intelligent debate and while i am not here to debate,
i am certainly interested in intelligent clarification and understanding from a
factual perspective.
Referring
to the below..
"Hukum
asal seluruh urusniaga perniagaan dalam apa jua bentuk adalah harus kecuali ada
dalil yang membuktikannya haram.
Apabila
telah wujud dalil menunjukkan ia haram serta tiada hujjah balasan konkrit untuk
menafikannya, sesuatu urusniaga itu paling pun akan bertukar menjadi syubhat,
jika tidak menjadi haram.
Islam
mengajar kita agar menjauhi syubhat sebagaimana yang disebut Umar Al-Khattab
tadi walaupun terpaksa mengorban 9/10 cara niaga yang mungkin halal."
FIRSTLY,
In the case of Infinity Downline, is this why you referred to the lack of a
clear company identity as being ONE factor for it to be labelled as haram?
Because Muslims cannot be sure who is behind the scene and therefore there
cannot be conviction that it is "safe"?
I
receive emails from the company (Multiplex) and they also provide weekly LIVE
training on a webinar where we interact with the president itself (the webinar
link is http://www.BootcampWebinar.com) The president isn't a CEO of a large corporation,
but i think a small company, so it's not a multinational but it has of course
gone international due to the power of the internet.)
This
morning, we received a mail from Peter Wolfing himself as below (regarding when
the library will be updated)
From:
"Peter Wolfing" <
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>View contact details
To:
"'Morgan TAy'" <
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>
I
have not had time to add more.Just
keeping up with the growth is taking all my time.There is way more than what is charged anyway
but I will add some soon.
Peter
So
Peter exists and we are in touch with him weekly at the training webinars, the
company exists BUT the thing is that members need to OPT in to receive contact
as he sends out emails only to those who allow the company to contact them
(unlike many companies that just keep sending emails whether we want it or
not). Also, because it is not a large corporation - it is unlikely to be cost
effective to set up a branch in malaysia.
My
question now is - is this still considered 'gharar' to the Muslim? Meaning
uncertain? (please forgive me if my understanding is poor as i am not familiar
with the Islamic terms and am only following what i am capable of understanding
from reading your articles. please feel free to point out if i am wrong as the
purpose of me writing this whole email is to learn)
Or
would this just be a different form of business, and not actually one intended
to deceive? From what Mr. Irfan Khairi explained to me as well, i understand
that this business does not make itself VERY apparent on the website because it
is collecting a database list of emails and it is following the style of many
businesses online now that offer a free ebook or video BEFORE you even know who
they are. After giving the free ebook/video, THEN they introduce themselves. Is
this then 'gharar' and therefore also then not acceptable practice in Islam?
I
ask because i teach internet marketing methods and collecting a list is one
online marketing method. However, if being 'invisible' while collecting the
list is causing it to have a 'haram' elements then of course, i must tell that
to my Muslim students.
I
would then truly appreciate your help on this.
SECONDLY,
I
use certain ID products in the library to train my students. Certainly i have
benefitted from it, but of course I understand english and internet marketing
very well. From what i understand ID is haram because MOST people do not want
the products. However, if people join my coaching program (and i already tell
them upfront i provide coaching for internet business BEFORE they sign up), and
i direct them to listen to the specified products as well as provide my own
training materials as part of my program for them, would they still be guilty
of 'haram' as i am still using ID as my platform?
Again,
i would so appreciate your help on this as i am not sure anymore if i should
advertise my services to Muslims given that I will still be using the ID system
for a while as it is the perfect live 'case study' for my students. (When they
can start earning an income from implementing the methods i teach, then it is a
good indication for me and them that they have benefitted from my program for
them.)
THIRDLY,
The
monthly fee is for the online system they get and not the same old products
that yes, logically should only be paid for once.I too would be silly to pay for the same
products every month. I pay monthly as i want the online system and viability
of online storage of all the files iuse
for my program being easily downloadable from anywhere. I have a student in
Sabah and one in Terengganu and having the files online as well as online
business system makes it easy for me to deal with faraway clients in terms of
registration and payment. And i only pay RM100 a month so i am okay with that.
My
question is, is this still Riba for my muslim clients?I collect RM100 but for coaching i give plus
of course the fee of the online business facilities they get. Is this
conceptually unacceptable in Islam because most of the other titles in the
library will not be used?
Again,
I could set up my own system and compile my own videos and audios, but it was
so much cheaper and easier for me when i started coaching to just use the ID
registration system plus business tools in it.
But
now i am unsure if it is okay for my Muslim clients.
Ustaz,
I find that your opinions on many other articles are valid and justified and so
i am writing to gain clarification.
I
realise that i of course have a different view of the programme being
non-muslim, but at the end of the day, if i am to have Muslim clients then they
must be comfortable and i certainly do not want to be labelled as culturally
insensitive. Your article on ID raised many doubts and questions so i would
like very much, instead of speculation - to just clarify with you given these
facts about the program that are somewhat different from what you initially
spoke about.
I
look forward to your reply and thank you very much in advance.
Thanks
for your email. I'll try to reply in a very simple manner as i really don't
have much time to write long explanations.
Generally
speaking, i do think that you have got most of my points from my article and
response. By scrutinizing some of ID current website, it is realized that the
team is currently trying to fix the problem by doubling the promotion of the
products rather than the system. May be that way, the program might be appeared
as the true selling products program. However, it is still not, at least from
my perspective.
In
response to your quires, my response will be as the following:-
1) Background of the company
& Peter
It
has been said that, Multiplex System is responsible of the ID program or scheme
and it is regarded as the founder company and also the owner and provider of
the products.
My
question, what is the website for multiplex system company? Do you have any of
the detail about the company such as management of the company, board of
directors, audited financial report, license etc. the company is govern under
which law and which country?
Is
there any legal proof that multiplex system is responsible for any issues
regarding ID program?Say that there is
a problem with regard to the program i.e. the ID login system vanished,
suspended, or the owner fleeing away, so is there any guarantee that multiplex company
will always be there and take full responsibility on all the their customer's
fund ? If not, where can the participant seek help to? It is not about the company only but also the regulation adn law which regulates them.
That
is what i mean by 'gharar' (uncertainty elements which could tantamount to quarrel,
argument and coercion). Forwarding Peter Wolfing's very short email is
absolutely will prove nothing in that regard. It has to be noted that Bernard
Mardoff is million times popular that Peter Wolfing but he is still running a
scam business.
I
understood that some of the home marketing or internet business need not to have a big
premise to run the business. However it is different when it involves lot of
people, and lot of people's money, moreover the company is offering and
attracting consumers to the commission system which need to be monitored carefully
to avoid fraud, cheating etc. The case is totally different from an internet
seller or marketer who is selling real asset such as map etc to their clients.
There is no commission system and he is the only one who sells and conducts the
business. In addition, all the deals are from the type of one off deal. This is obviously not for the ID program.
2) Products
As
i said and you have also quoted it in one of your website, yes, for those who
join the program to benefit from the products in a genuine manner and
concurrently take advantage of the commission system, it might be permissible (but
still depend on other issues) but in reality, the otherwise happened. So in
Islam, in order to determine the precise ruling, we will have to focus on the
majority of the participants and how the company advertise itself. In many cases both of them are already portraying
that their true intention of joining the program or scheme, is to benefit from
the commissioning system which as a result will simultaneously evolve as a money game. However
the minority might be exempted from the prohibition (but still depend on other
issues as well). The same situation applied to the company in which is putting lot of their efforts
in promoting the system rather than the products.
Have
i seen the products?
Yes
I have seen some of the videos and listened to some of the audios. I find it ok
and acceptable but to a very small number of people. Therefore I have regarded
such products as 'rubbish' although i have to admit that for some quarters they
would perceive the products to have value and good information which they might
need. However, as i told you, the majority views, and their behaviors and how
they treat the products and promote the program will give us clues on how
relevant is the product to them, and also whether or not they are 'rubbish'.
It
is observed that campaigns and promotions which are made by many of ID
participants (and also Login Facebook dapat RM 100) are not giving any
attention to the products.
Another
issue with regards to the products is that it is unclear whether the products
are being sold or leased by monthly payment for access. Some tries to relate
the monthly payment fee as a rental whereas other said that the prroduct is being sold.
Anyhow, it is noted that many of the products can still be downloaded and saved
into your PC. So which one? Is there anywhere this rule is being mentioned in the
registration form etc.? All of these are gharar
in Islamic point of view.
The
regulations are unclear as to whether it is lease by monthly payment or being sold
to the customer. If the fees payment are representing a lease payment, why in the world it can be saved and
downloaded freely?.
Such unclear term related to the products also convinced me
that actually the company has no serious attention on selling or promoting the
products.For that reason also they are
promoting the products in a bundle. If the products are really good and can be
sold or leased and worth for money, the company will absolutely sell or lease
them separately as it can bring more profit. However, i am sure that they have
no confidence to sell the products and in fact, i am almost sure that most of
the people WILL NOT PURCHASE OR LEASE the products if there is NO REVERSE TWO
UP SYSTEM in place.
Without
the true products, the system is a money game and fall under the category of riba from the Islamic viewpoint. If the
products really have their own qualities and are marketable by itself, the commission
should also be based on the price if each product and not by way of registration fee
or whatever you wanted call it.
From
Muslim jurist point of view when :
a) The products have no special qualities
b) The promotion is more toward head
hunting and promoting the benefit of the system lot more than the explaination on the benefit of the products
c) Commission is based on the
registration or monthly fees and not in accordance to each and every product which has been sold by the
participants.
Such
program or scheme will still be deemed as money game and Riba,
furthermore it would also fall under that category of gambling as well.
As for
non Muslim, it is up to them and their belief but for Muslim i am responsible
to prevent such scheme, program or whatever you want to call it from spreading
to our Muslim brothers and sisters.
In
Islam, they are many rules in obtaining wealth; one of them is that you must
not gain without putting an equal effort. In some circumstances, profit or gain
must be associated to certain type of real business risk. This is to ensure wealth
are being created and not transferred. One needs to comprehend this philosophy
in order to understand the issue.
Actually
i can say that i have plenty of other arguments but i am sorry, for my inability
to response or clarify all of the contentious issues with regards to the program as
the time is very limited and there is lot of other tasks which need to attend to, finally
I hope that this email could clarify something if not everything.
Posted by Hamba Allah juga, on 19-06-2010 01:00, IP 121.121.19.119, Guest
1. Mengucap PIS
Saya setuju dgn hamba Allah yg mana luahan hati PIS agak kasar.
Walaupun kt tidak bersetuju dengan apa yang diperkatakan, jg kt menidakkan...dan sy setuju dengan PIS bahawa anda tidak tinggi ilmu agama berbanding ustaz...so jg sekali-kali menidakkan atau mencari pelbagai dalil bagi menghalakkanya.
Kt tidak boleh menyalahkan sistem seperti kt menyalahkan kereta apabila kemalangan ( break loose, tayar licin dan seumpama dgn'n )bukan kerana sikap.
Jd kita telah diberi panduan yg jelas dr yg Maha Esa sebagai panduan, berdasarkan panduan tersebut kita nilai dan membuat keputusan yg betul, bukan akal menguasai ilmu tp ilmu menguasai akal...jg mempolitikkan agama yg suci demi kepuasan pribadi anda...renungkan
Posted by hamba allah, on 02-06-2010 15:55, IP 58.26.173.199, Guest
2. Assalamualaikum...
saya bukan hendak mengkeritik.... tapi apa yang dekeluarkan oleh PIS agak kasar.
ustazs hanya menyampaikan apa yang difikirkan elok.... dan sebenarnya ada banyak cara lain lain yang lebih hala untuk kita berjaya(dalam ertikata lain wang ringgit). saya sarankan saudara saudari semua mulakan "pembangunan kandiri" dapatkan bahan bacaan yang baik seperti dari penulis "Jim Rohn" dan kembali kepada kitab suci kita Al-quran.
dari segi dunia yang kita duduki dan undang2 yang sedia ada tak patut kita persalahkan... kita perlu persalahkan diri kita. sebab ada yang berjaya..kenapa? mereka dalam negara yang sama, undang2 yang sama... namun mereka tetap berjaya tanpa sebarang masalah dengan undang2 kampung,daerah,negeri,negara malah dunia... jika terlalu banyak rungutan... pergi lah ke tempat lain yang tiada undang2.... mungkin ke plenet lain
Posted by Ahmad, on 17-05-2010 23:50, IP 110.159.72.159, Guest
3. Jalan Pintas Jadi Kaya
Tiada jalan pintas untuk berjaya kerana kita diminta untuk berusaha dan hanya dengan ilmu baru kita dpt berkembang maju.Jgn mudah terpengaruh dengan sesuatu yang meragukan dan tiada sokongan syariah. Usaha tangga kejayaan saudaraku sekalian.
“Yang haq telah datang dan yang batil telah musnah, sesungguhnya perkara yang batil itu pasti musnah”
Berpeganglah pada keimanan moga2 terlindung dari ancaman pengaruh dajjal..
Moga mendapat keberkatan untuk ustaz kerana menyebarkan ilmu yang jarang didalami masyarakat melayu.
Posted by PIS, on 12-05-2010 16:03, IP 203.82.92.100, Guest
4. apa maksud ustaz yang sebenar..????
kalu betul2 la nak menegakkan agama allah saya mohon ustaz sila buat laman web berkaitan hukum hudud plak....hukum yang allah swt tulis dalam al-quran....untuk manusia sejagat....saya agama x tinggi macam ustaz....kalu betul ustaz tkt Allah dan ingin menunujukkan kebenaran maka Ustaz berani berhadapan dengan risiko....dunia kita skang adalah komunikasi melalui alam maya....walaupun saya tidak join infinity downline ternyata byk org sedar mengenainya....so...jgn hanya pertikaikan duit je halal haramnya...pertikaikan plak hukum yang manusia buat ari ni dan sedang digunakan di negara kita....jangan plak nak lepas tangan....ni bukan POLITIK tapi kenyataan....
Posted by Celya Tay, on 20-03-2010 04:54, IP 115.134.255.162, Guest
5. Reply to Uzar on FB
Salam Uzar, Thank you very much for your time and explanations. I begin to see clearer now the true grey areas of concern that need to be further evaluated by a Muslim in this kind of business.
Am sure many people have benefitted from your explanations too (with regards to applying this discussion to other programs they are involved in)
If it's okay with you, may i update the page on my website with links to all these discussions? My aim is to have an INFO site for people who want to do ID and if i don't put these links there (including your original article on Syariah in an MLM) then again - Muslims will have no reference point when they do come to come to my website for information on ID. My original intention was always for 'customers' to be "Buyer Beware" which is to be truly informed and confident before they even start the biz and so having all this info there would be useful to that end. But only with your permission. And yes - i will make it very clear that you are NOT endorsing the programme but giving your independent opinion from a Syariah viewpoint.
By the way Uzar, is there any way i can get more understanding/clarification about point (2) that you stated above about having an underlying 'asset' and how it shouldn't be a 'conduit'? Yes, this box is too small So is there any good reference you could suggest or maybe you have even explained it elsewhere and i could go read it up? I would like very much to learn the exact term of the meaning 'asset' as well as the conditions for both types of commisions from the Islamic viewpoint.
I hope you don't mind me asking this as a non-muslim, but as a Home Business Consultant, i have a great desire to learn more about these Islamic principles because right now there is SO little discussion and information available on it and i feel this is a big 'gap' in the local home business scene. I feel to really be professional in my services to clients, i need to at least try and 'fill' this gap - in my own busine
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So is there any good reference you could suggest or maybe you have even explained it elsewhere and i could go read it up? I would like very much to learn the exact term of the meaning 'asset' as well as the conditions for both types of commisions from the Islamic viewpoint.